Welcome to the blog that is everything soccer in Tasmania. Feel free to post anything, with in reason, about soccer in Tasmania.
e.g. Does anybody else think it would be beneficial to have no Premier League based clubs in Division 1, therefore, strengthening soccer overall and creating a proper relegation/promotion system?
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This blog is for everything soccer in Tasmania, feel free to post whatever comes to mind! It must be stated that this is not an official FFT site.
19 comments:
Yes absolutely, would especially benefit the integrity of division 1.
Who really cares about Div 1 though?
Div 1 has been gaining a lot of credibility over the past years, and definitely has come inline with the standard of Prem League Reserves. The skill level and game play is the equivalent, its probably just the fitness levels and influence from a Premier League team that Div 1 clubs lack. Taroona will push other Premier League teams a lot harder this year, and will no doubt gain some quality results.
"Who really cares about div 1"???
Well actually everyone involved with every side in the div 1 competition!!!
Especially stand alone sides such as Beachside (who incidentally attract a larger saturday supporter base than most premier league clubs), taroona and huon.
Although premier league may be a higher standard, 99% of players are miles from going anywhere with their football. Lets face it we all play for fun because we enjoy the game and the lifestyle that goes around it; competing and making friends!!!
I hope this continues for all sides right down to div 4 who are just as much football sides as premier league.
This question was designed to hopefully get input on how to improve the logistics and organisation for everyone and for the Tasmanian game.
Get off yourself post #2...
Well said Anonymous! It is definiately great for the game in Tassie to see such great support for the likes of Beachside, Taroona and Hobart United. Their high emphasis on having a good club atmosphere is certainly contributing to their recent growth and results!
"Who really cares about div 1"???
nice comment, is that why the premier league team have decided to exclude non premier league clubs from having an u/19 team or is that because 2 of the top 5 teams in that comp were 16 yrs and under ??? or is it that the knights who's team conceded over 200 goals in a season want to steal one of these teams??? to have a truly equal promotion / relegation system then the 2 competitions must now remain independent otherwise teams like olympic,kingborough & sth hob who have influenced the competition in the past will still stack teams because they can
I almost think Div One is more interesting than premier league because the clubs are smaller and often more passionate. But it can be a bit of a mixed bag, although teams like Nelson and Huon have come along leaps and bounds the last few years.
Go the mighty Beachside blowflies!!! Our game days are more enjoyable than most others so everyone is welcome to the tropicana cauldron (Sand Down Park).
As with most clubs we'll need new players, coaches and helpers next year, so feel free to volunteer.
ps. please visit our website at:
http://www.beachsidehsc.bravehost.com
Hey well said Captain Aus, you are right where would the top league be without the rest of the leagues?! Does the North have the same sought of set-up as far as the Division 1 goes down here??
There's one thing I think needs to be changed ASAP... that is to return to a finals series format in the Premier League. Sure, award the team on top with a trophy, but have a finals series also, as there's no inspiration for mid-table teams to be winning a month or more before the end of the season.
If FFT weren't so lazy, they could organise a finals series for more than just the Premier League also!
The under 15 state team came third in the under 19 southern league and following their season did exceptionally well in the National Championships, winning one game and drawing 2. Playing in the u19 offered them invaluable experience as a team and they gained a lot of credibility for Tas football. It would be a shame not to give next years team a similar preparation. Clubs should start looking at the big picture as these players will be returning to their clubs as better developed players, ready to step up into the senior ranks
Whilst I agree with the comments about playing full time, when in the state team, it is almost impossible for somebody living in the North West to do that, so what is happening is that playing for your State is just about out of reach for many very talented young players from the North West. I know this as IO have coached many of them.
Hugo what you say about the "state" under age teams is true. How do we solve the problem of making a viable team that plays together on a regular basis and also is not just made up of southern based players. I am sure that there are a lot of talented yougsters in the north.
I shall be interested in how many of the state team return to their local clubs and how many stick yogether to go to one club. It is important that the local clubs see the progression as beneficial to themselves as well as the youth.
Success of the program will see young Tasmanians being approached by A League clubs
In response to your welcome sign may I say well done for having the intestinal fortitude to run a continuing open forum on Tasmanian Association Football .
I used to try and do the samwe with my letters from under the house however lost a few friends and aquaintances along the way .
Be interesting to see who are your readers .
Brian
Thanks for the compliment Brian ... I think! haha The site isnt intended to lose friends or acquaintances at all i hope, its just a place where people can discuss the ongoing issues that are arising around Football Tas at the moment. The constructive criticism is aimed at generating more ideas and improving things, the distructive ones are not endorsed at all.
Hoping a range of people will post their views to get a better overall picture of where everybody stands on the issues.
I feel that there are so many issues flying internally around clubs that they somehow need to be projected outward for all the other clubs to hear, therefore, hopefully improving something at least!
Before we debate the membership of Division 1 South it is necessary to examine the past makeup of this competition.
Initially the title said it all. Division 1 was the premier Southern soccer league comprising the best 10 or 8 clubs. A Reserve Competition supported them. All other Clubs or teams were “lumped “together in Divisions 2 / 3 irrespective of ability.
After settling down this system worked with genuine promotion and relegation.
When the State league was formed Division 1 South was left with a residue of 4 or 5 “Premier “Clubs, the balance up to 8 or 10 being made up of Division 2 clubs summarily elevated to make up the numbers.
There have been from time to time variations on this theme with the residue being supplemented by:
a. State League Reserves teams. (The State League at that time was a senior only competition) 1988/91.
b. Between 1988-91 University and Taroona won Div 1 South defeating State League Reserve sides to achieve the Premiership.
c. State League Thirds plus more clubs elevated. (The State League had become Seniors and Reserves
The situation at present is that the title Division 1 is effectively a misnomer. Membership is 6 independent Clubs supplemented by the third layer of the Premier League Clubs.
Over the years the playing standard differential between the Premier League and Division One has steadily widened. There is nothing wrong with the League structure in itself but the fading away of Clubs outside Premier level is a matter of concern.
The gap did not start to widen until the introduction in Southern Tasmania of an under 23 league in 1999. This effectively introduced another layer below the Premier reserves.
Furthermore other factors have contributed.
a. Due to the Media concentrating on the 3 Premier grades the Division 1 effectively vanished from the pages of the local press.
b. The promotion of Clubs by application rather than on merit. (cases in point are Nelson ,Huon Valley and Christian Utd.
c. The inability of Division 1 clubs to secure charismatic and / or competent coaches due to the competition’s lack of profile or monetary constraints.
d. No longer playing on enclosed grounds thus depriving the Clubs of gate money.
e. The introduction of Division 1 reserves. Whilst this was feasible for Stand-alone Division 1 Clubs it effectively meant that the Premier Clubs were fielding their 5th grade sides to make up the numbers.
Another factor that is the bane of the stand alone Clubs is that the qualities of the Premier League based sides vary from week to week. This is correct.
In the case of say South Hobart, Kingborough, University and Olympia the Division 1 and Reserves are last on the selectors pecking order. Whilst there may be a hard core of genuine Division One players who turn out on a regular basis they are from time to time topped up with either under 19’s or the occasional social league player.
More often than not on away trips to say Huon Valley up to 3 or 4 players double up. This is also the case when all Premier club sides play on the same day.
On the occasions when the Premier League team plays on Friday night their Division 1 sides are at full strength with up to three Premier players being permitted to drop back with a cascade effect into their Reserves.
Thus say a stand alone club may be defeated by a full strength South Hobart side whilst Huon Valley may trounce an under strength visiting side.
The solution to this problem is for all Premier based sides to play on the one day. This would effectively eliminate team stacking..
Nevertheless the independent clubs should be competitive and it is up to them to make themselves so even though they will have to undergo pain to achieve the desired benchmark.
Certain remedial steps can be implemented immediately
The 1st step is for admission into the competition to be gained on merit and not as in the past by application.
The second step is to institute a system of promotion and relegation between Divisions 1 and 2, 2 and 3 and so on down the line. It goes with out saying that the promoted team must comply with the benchmarks set down by the FFT.
Division 1 clubs should be encouraged to field under 19/17/17/13 sides with FFT providing incentives.r
Certainly increased media cover would be of benefit. If titles have to be changed to achieve this end then so be it.
One cannot address this matter without considering the impact on Premier Clubs presently fielding sides in Division 1. What would the effect of their third and fourth layers effectively being moved downward into lower leagues.
Would there be a drift of players away from Premier Clubs to the independent clubs. To what extent impossible to say. Club loyalty would be the major factor. The most serious consequence would be that the emerging player would be progressing up the line via a social competition as opposed to the present time when he has the opportunity to mature in a higher grade. Added to the above would be the loss of revenue due to deceased player /supporter numbers.
The 1988/91 systems provided the strongest competition where independents mixed and matched with Premier reserves. To survive you had to lift your game. However there would be strong objections to this system from the Premier League Clubs . We have already heard them object to the under 19 league being open to all.Clubs.
From a management perspective the current system with all its shortcomings is the most acceptable. It is the easiest to manage from a roster point of view and it provides the independents with the best competition as can be arranged at the present time.
The Trogdolyte
The drift of players from lower teams at Premier League clubs may not be such a bad thing? If they want to stay loyal and battle it out to play in the higher teams then so be it. It would even up the leagues by not allowing those couple of Premier League based teams in the competition, and the players that wanted a challenge would move clubs if need be.
Securing a continual nucleus of 'enough' players seems to be one problem for stand alone clubs.
its only inward-looking premier clubs that object to the concept of not having any premier club teams in division one. The better state for the game would be to have a certain promotion candidate each season and no premier club having the opportunity to influence which team that might be.
"easiest to manage from a roster point of view" - please explain?
It might be necessary to decrease the size of the premier league in the south to say 8 teams and have a greater concentration of the better players in less teams so that the possibility of a higher standard competition evolving is enhanced. This would also provide a greater number - say 8 - for Division One. Division One should have a compulsory Under 18 team so that any promoted club would easily be able to comply with the Under 19 requirement of Premier League.
Rather than consider what would be best for the game as a whole we allow the interests of individual clubs to take precedence.
Perhaps a board consisting of those INDEPENDENT from any club would be best - that is lawyers, marketers, business people independent of the game who make decisions based upon the best advice available - whether that be from the employed 'experts' - the ceo, C&D Manager etc. - or from FFA advice.
Hey Brian, I think because it is a blog and not a forum that I am the only one that can post a thread unfortunately. However, if you post your topic i will make it into its own thread?
I think lots of people would like to see Div 1 restricted to non premier league clubs, with two eight team leagues and a promotion/relegation system (though some premier league clubs obviously wouldn't). Eight teams per league is about the right number in football terms, as plenty of people feel there isn't enough good players for a 10 team premier league.
However, an eight team league has it's own issues to overcome. With eight teams does each team play two rounds (14 games) or three rounds (21 games)? Clearly 14 games is too few, so you'd have to play three rounds. Then you have to factor in the other games that get played throughout the season, such as the Statewide Cup (5 rounds), State Premiership match at the end of the season (1 week) and North-South matches (2 games) if they are to be continued. All up you need 29 match days to get it all in.
From the start of the season proper at the beginning of April to late September you have about 26 weeks, and one of those weeks is usually Easter, when nobody want to play. So you have 25 weeks to get in 29 matches, which is quite a tight schedule.
You could get rid of Summer Cup and start the league in early March, but some councils don't give access to their grounds for football until the beginning of April.
Eight teams is a great number from a football point of view, but logistically it makes it difficult without a lot of double up weekends, which many clubs don't like. And if there is any rain it could be a nightmare.
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